Josh Tapp 0:00
What's up everybody? Josh Tapp here again, and welcome back to the lucky Titan podcast. So today we have Brad Hall on the mic and Brad is the father of industrial organizational psychology. He's worked with over four dow 30 companies, having been an executive and multiple of them. He's also spoken to audiences all across the world about industrial organizational psychology. We're so excited to have him on the show today because he's going to be sharing with us how to grow a world class team. So let's hop right in. Alright, Brad, so tell us one thing about yourself that most people don't know. Yeah, it's morning here in China. And and I laid out all of my vitamin supplements on the table, and I counted them this 100 pills a little bit over 100 pills. My wife laughs at me. And and yet, you know, I'm 61 years old, and I feel absolutely great. So I'm kind of a nutrition buff. And it's and it seems extreme, but I think it's right but but
yeah, you said 100 pills. for a day or 100 pills for a week
Unknown Speaker 1:02
know how to pills for a morning. Oh, man.
Brad Hall 1:07
Oh, I really know every single vitamin and herb that I'm taking I know in detail exactly how much and in sometimes it makes my stomach snap but
Unknown Speaker 1:20
it seems to be working. So
Josh Tapp 1:22
I love that. I recently started taking some supplements and the first time I took I didn't know you're supposed to have food. And oh man, you'll throw up so fast. The second you down those packages of pills. It got me so quick. Anyways, nobody wants to hear that. So let's dive right in then Brad. So let's go a little bit of background about you and you know, kind of how you got into your industry and everything. So give a little bit of background.
Unknown Speaker 1:46
I'm you know, I'm an industrial organizational psychologist and I was in one of the first maybe six programs in the world are industrial organization psychology. It's kind of like organization behavior. Organization psychology, change management organization development organization is all the same thing. So you don't think, well, I don't know which one, it's the same thing.
Unknown Speaker 2:12
I got into that.
Unknown Speaker 2:16
Because, and I think it works for me. I have a very high achievement drive. And I think the people on your podcast here, if they're entrepreneurs, it's very, very likely that they will also have a high achievement, right?
Brad Hall 2:31
I always call them neurotic achievement drive,
Unknown Speaker 2:34
and my guess is entrepreneur, you probably also have an erotic achievement. And what does that mean? Well, that means like, if three people there's three main motivations of people achievement, motivation, achievement, affiliation, and power. Three guys play golf, one. One plays that because golf is about getting better. It's about improving your score. It's about beating the other guy, guy, or at least be yourself. The SEC and that person will always carry carry a scorecard. Number two, and golf is about is about building relationships. He's very offended that you've got a scorecard, you want to ask every time at the end of the hall, what did you get? And then number three, and go plays golf because he's high end power. And he wants to bring everybody together and show them a good time and drive them there and drive them home. And everybody talks about what a cool time that was. All three, play golf, all three play golf for very different reasons.
Josh Tapp 3:32
Yeah, right. I like that analogy. I'm
Unknown Speaker 3:34
a high achiever and I got a I got a PhD. Why did I get a PhD? Because it was hard. Right? Why? Because it's hard. It was it was a hill and I wanted to climb the hill. So that's why I got it. Probably not the smartest thing, but I was lucky that it fit me Now the second thing that I often tell people when I do career consulting is you got to develop your skills. So you can do something that nobody else can. And then you're worth something.
Josh Tapp 4:03
Unknown Speaker 4:04
I am a PhD in organizational psychology, which very few people have these strategic HR skills where you can improve business performance with people. I speak Japanese. I did my doctoral dissertation in Japanese management is in overseas practices of Japanese companies, workforce management practices. Yeah. And so when you put those two things together, I can do something that nobody else can do. And then and then they have to pay me right and so great. I, I was at at&t as their head of HR for big business. They sent me to Japan to work in Japan Telecom. And then they sold the business in Japan telecom in 2000. Not more than six months after I was there. I have no job. IBM hires me but IBM never, never, never had hires people at an executive level never. I know was in charge of talent management or Asia. We did. We did well, we did one person in three years out of 300 level executives we did we hired one person, second level. And I was the second one. Why? Because I spoke Japanese. And I had this skill that nobody could do, they had to write. And so that's how I got my foot in there. And that that gave me a foot in designing Lenovo when Lenovo bought IBM PC and putting them together. I know China. I know, IBM, I know, you know, organization, affections and culture, and I stuck them together. Well, that gave me the next one, which was Huawei, which is now a huge corporation. So So I started by differentiating myself very early. And it for 20 years, it felt like I was getting nothing out of this thing where I have a special skill, and then all of a sudden it happened and it works. real fast.
Unknown Speaker 6:01
Josh Tapp 6:03
And see and you were able to work with five dow 30 companies you said
Unknown Speaker 6:06
something like, no, no. Yeah, something like that. PepsiCo, McDonald's, at&t, IBM.
Unknown Speaker 6:15
Four, or dow 30. And then Huawei which is the size of a gallery,
Josh Tapp 6:20
right? Yeah. Even bigger in China, right?
Unknown Speaker 6:24
Unknown Speaker 6:24
was 100 and $7 billion. Got 325,000. Boys, right?
Josh Tapp 6:30
massive company. And so now you've decided to step out and start doing some consulting now. So you're you've taken that knowledge, like you said, being that achiever. Yeah. And you're becoming, you know, a consultant. So tell us a little bit about how you've been bridging into that. And you know, what the results of that so far? Well, as I was
Unknown Speaker 6:49
Lenovo and Lenovo had became, you know, after the
Unknown Speaker 6:54
transition of the gold star global global company.
Unknown Speaker 7:00
Lenovo was it. And having, you know, being the designer that initially, I was only there for six months, so it wasn't like I was, you know, but still, it gives you a tattoo that that never goes away, ran on. And then going to Huawei and doing it. And Huawei is like Google times 10 in China. I mean, it's the it's the most desired job in China. And, you know, I was the one that was able to design the HR function for that. And so it's kind of like I became the father of HR in China. And I was also the senior HR expert for 4000 HR people at Huawei. So that gives me credibility. Yeah, huge credibility. And so what I did then is I found, HR root, h, h, r, big h big at all. Little ot HR route is kind of like the Society for human resource management for China has 2 billion members who are early. So I have content, and they have people, they need me. And I need them. Especially I need them because I can't do marketing knocking on doors of Chinese companies. I don't speak Chinese well enough to do that. I don't know. You know, if I'm going to build an event, I don't know how to how to build an event. So I let them we have several offerings. And you know, like, for example, workshops after I give a speech, so they'll put me on the speaking circuit, once a month in front of 1000 to 2000 people, something like that. And I give a 40 minute speech, but there's nothing that anybody can do after they listen to my speech. They need to go a lot deeper. So we'll have a two day training. Well, HR route sets up the training, they get butts in seats, they get, they do the billing, and and I just show up and do the training. So building a partnership with them, I don't have to do all that stuff that I'm not good at. I can just do what I'm good at.
Josh Tapp 9:19
I love that one. So you're you're essentially doing joint venture partnerships with them, where you get to keep a percentage of what you what you make off of there. I'm splitting half and a half,
Unknown Speaker 9:29
you know, you get 50. Yeah, and that's more than enough. It's more than enough because you're, you're, we're charging 1700 dollars US for two days. And you put a 90 people in a room, so it's enough that we can split it and it'll be fine.
Josh Tapp 9:46
Yeah, and everybody's happy.
Unknown Speaker 9:48
Right, and we take the one so we have one topic and we'll do it in six cities. We'll do it in Beijing and Shanghai and chong ching etc will do a pop up a pop up. That will take the next topic but will pop up right so In addition to that,
Unknown Speaker 10:03
you know somebody josh stein Lee, who recommended me he just
Unknown Speaker 10:09
yesterday sent me a note said, Hey,
Unknown Speaker 10:11
why don't we have a revenue sharing and your speech? I'm giving all these speeches. I'm not making any money by making, you know, 300 bucks or something.
Unknown Speaker 10:18
Right? He's got like
Unknown Speaker 10:20
a like a honorarium not not like like money, but he said I can I know how to make a lot of money on speech. Okay, fine. Josh, can you take, I don't know what it's going to be 30% or 40, whatever it's going to take. You take a piece of it, I'll take a piece of it. And he and will revenue share on that one. So I got revenue sharing this way. I got revenue sharing that way, consulting firm now called GLG. It's a it's a global consulting firm out of New York. And the GL group, but it's GLG comm I think, and what they do is they're going to find executives who need somebody like that. Me. So they're kind of like my Salesforce. Yeah, I'll take, we'll take a cut. Fine. Take a cut. I don't care. You know, just give me some money. So. So I've got three big partnerships, each with a different offering area, consulting, speaking, and workshops.
Josh Tapp 11:19
Yeah. And essentially you're teaching all the same things just in a different format. Is that correct? Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 11:25
Yeah. Yeah, it's pretty much the same. Yeah, yeah. Exactly.
Josh Tapp 11:30
What I love that and what I love most about that is the way you've set that up. I mean, a lot of the people are listening here are trying to kind of get their foot in the door. They've already you know, mastered something, but they want to be able to start sharing that with people and, you know, what you've done is is say, Okay, well, let me just partner with three people who know how to set up these different platforms and, you know, they fill it all show up and speak. That's a big deal.
Unknown Speaker 11:52
Yeah, you know, you guys probably in the US because my
Unknown Speaker 11:58
daughter, only about This, what are we watching?
Unknown Speaker 12:01
And I can't remember the name of the documentary, but it's like a history channel. It's American history is talking about Ford and Rockefeller and Vanderbilt, etc. and Carnegie. And one of the things I've noticed on each of these, for example, Andrew Carnegie, you know, he was a nice guy, and he needed a kind of a nasty guy next to him to do the nasty stuff. Because he didn't want to do it. And and I see this over and over Edison and JP Morgan, Edison had all the great ideas, JP Morgan knew how to get things done. Yeah. And it's, you know, it's knowing what you're good at. And it's outsourcing the stuff that you're not good at that I see that same theme for each one of these titans of industry. Right? They really understood where they created value and Where they didn't and where they didn't begin somebody else. And I think that's a great idea instead of trying to hoard all the money for yourself,
Josh Tapp 13:08
when what's funny is I think most people think that they have to be that, you know, Tony Robbins or whoever who's just grinding all day hitting, getting to as many events as possible, but when you're doing all the pieces of the work, I mean, you don't have to do that. Split it with five people and you just show up and speak and you make money for doing nothing, right.
Unknown Speaker 13:29
That's right, that's right.
Unknown Speaker 13:31
I'm trying to do right now, you know, and Huawei too.
Unknown Speaker 13:36
Well, if you take a Michael Dell or
Unknown Speaker 13:41
Larry Ellison, something like that they own about 20% of their company and beat those. But at Huawei, Mister run that founder of it he owns 1.43% of Huawei, he decided to make the pie bigger and give more slices to everybody else. And build a huge company. And that's what he's done is he's done a great job at that. Now he doesn't have 100 billion billion dollars, like some of you are coming right right now. But I'm sure he's got, you know, five or six or 10 billion. And that's
Josh Tapp 14:18
Unknown Speaker 14:19
So, so share it with more people and don't try to afford it all. And, you know, it's the same thing here. You know, I could try to get all of my so I'm billing 8000 us a day, something like that.
Unknown Speaker 14:33
Unknown Speaker 14:33
So if I, if, if the guys give me that,
Unknown Speaker 14:36
you know, the GLG gets me that and I pay them a third of that. Fine. Why not? You know, right. That's enough. That's enough. And they can feel more days. Yeah. So
Josh Tapp 14:51
when and then you're not spending years of your time just trying to get one event set up. That's right.
Unknown Speaker 14:56
That's right. That's right. I would rather have them feed me And and be, you know, moving along with at a lower rate, but just working more.
Josh Tapp 15:06
Yeah. Well so you know, changing the direction the conversation a little bit. What what are you kind of teaching in these in these masterminds, for example, because I mean, you've got such a broad scope, but what have you kind of narrowed your focus to that you felt it's so important to share with with executives?
Unknown Speaker 15:22
Unknown Speaker 15:25
yeah, I, that's the problem. I feel like emergency room physician, right? Yeah. Vision, somebody comes in has a problem, they got to figure it out. Right. And that's what I do is, is you come to me with a problem, you can say, you know, we're just not innovative or our customers aren't happy with our sales force, or, you know, we don't have we have a productivity problem. So, I, I can take any of those in and I can start working those, you know, but everybody wants to kind of specialize and So if there's a specialization, what I'm doing is I'm doing globalizing Asian companies, globalizing age coming, so I did my PhD, Japanese companies, globalizing their workforce. I was in Japan telecom is the only non Japanese in Japan telecom headquarters. I global I did, IBM, Asia and then I globalized Lenovo. And then I globalized Huawei, the two greatest global companies. So that becomes now my real competitive edge powerful competitive advantage. Yeah, come. In Japan, for example, everybody wants to talk about Japan is where Japan they don't have enough babies. They can't you know, they can't feed their workforce, etc. worry about that, because Twitter is a great company and trader knows he can get people from all over the world to work right. But other Japanese can companies cannot because they're not a good place to be. thing. Think about it. How many Asian services do you as an American us?
Josh Tapp 17:11
Unknown Speaker 17:13
Think of any. Yeah. banks, insurance, entertainment, airlines, hotels, education, you know, credit cards. There's nothing. There's no us base. It's all us face. Or we're not not not not necessarily all USPS. It could be, you know, you could be Credit Suisse, you could be Deutsche Bank. These are great companies as well, but it's hard for Asians to manage non Asians. Very different. Because Asians have a course of leadership style, do what we tell you to do. We're the boss. I'm the Emperor and you're you're not the Emperor. So you just do what I tell you to do. Or ever my boss at Huawei wants to Until, you know, he was saying something I said, No, no, no, you're not right. That's an argument, right? He says, okay, Brad, I'm gonna have to force you. And I'm like, no forced me, what do you do?
Unknown Speaker 18:15
But I knew that it from his perspective, it was just like, just telling you, I'm just gonna force you, right. And
Unknown Speaker 18:24
so, but that's the problem. And so these Asian companies have a really hard time being employers of choice, right? throughout the world. If you're Google, if you're McKinsey, if you're Goldman Sachs, if you're Facebook, you can go to any country, Microsoft, any country, get the best employees. But if you're Fujitsu or Nomura securities, you're not going to compete with Goldman Sachs in America. There's no answer. And these are pure human capital businesses. So if you can't compete with them, you can't compete. So. So that's what I'm doing that would be my
Josh Tapp 19:04
specialization. Interesting. So I mean, you're talking a lot about building the correct teams and making sure they're in the right places. When I find really interesting about your, you know, kind of your experience and everything there is I mean, you're not even just fighting. Poor management, you're fighting a cultural issue.
Unknown Speaker 19:23
Josh Tapp 19:24
Yeah. So, you know, how do you guys kind of navigate that? I mean, are you able, I mean, how do you help those people to overcome that? That cultural?
Unknown Speaker 19:33
Alright, so let me give you a great example. When I first got to Huawei, I talked with the CEO, he said, we have a problem in Europe. The Europeans don't like working for Huawei. They're all quitting. They want training, and they want career paths. And so you go to Germany and go to Germany, which is the headquarters of Western Europe. And you need to give them training and career paths. And I said, Look, I don't know what the problem is, but I'm sure it's not training. And career paths. I'll come back and I'll tell you what it is. So I went out there and I found out that, you know, the Deutsche Telekom would be, you know, an accounting and you might have 15 people on it after those would be Chinese half of those who prepared. The Chinese are all living each with with one another and dormitories. They eat in the same place for breakfast, lunch and dinner. They speak Chinese, right? And so even if they're having meetings where they're all coming together as a sales team to kind of plan, what happens is the Chinese will go off to their dormitories and spend the weekend together, and they'll change the plans, because they have better ideas. And they come back to work on Monday, and they start implementing over to the left. And the Germans start implementing the right because that's what they talked about on Friday. Right. And, and the Germans are saying, I hate Huawei. I hate my teammates. The customers don't like me. I can't create any value. gotta quit. Wow. And and I'll ask them, I'll say, well, you making money, I'll say I made way more money than I've ever made in my life, and I gotta quit. I just can't. And so what we have to do is, instead of what normal people with normal consultants will do is they'll come in and say, We're gonna do a cultural training class. Well, that's a waste of time. What they need is they need to get together as a team and say, here are all the sales steps in the sales process. Who on our team does number one who does number two, who does number three? And number one, if it's Josh, we say it's Josh and Josh says, What meat? Does everybody think is Josh? Yeah, Josh, everybody thinks it's Yeah. Will you accept it? All right. Well, you got to communicate with me, Josh, what do you mean, you want them to talk with you every day, every week? Every week? What do you what do you want? Exactly? And we make an agreement between you and the members of this team. Exactly what you will do. How You will do it when you will do it and connected with everybody else, and we write it down. And at the end of this, everybody signs your name, this is how we're going to work. Now, that is going to improve the climate and the culture. And it's going to preserve good employees, trying to improve, trying to make people happy by focusing on their happiness never makes them happy. Yeah. The people on this call are not making money. They don't want to have Brad Hall, have a bowling night so that they can go out and have fun and really reduce their stress. They want to make money, they want to help them make money, and then they'll be right. Right. That's what my philosophy is about improving the performance of the business and by that you improve the climate and this aspect.
Josh Tapp 22:57
Awesome. Well, thank you for sharing all that with us. I think that's an awesome place. platform in a great place for you to kind of catapult it, you know, I think you've got a great message there. So when, you know, a lot of our listeners here don't have massive companies, right? They have maybe 510 employees, what would you recommend like maybe a book for them to read as far as for, for changing the culture in their company? I know a lot of people struggle with that.
Unknown Speaker 23:21
Well, I would I, you know, if I, if we just have a few people, it doesn't matter. If you think about a basketball team only has a few people to write today only a few people. So how do you have a good basketball team? Well, you need to make sure that everybody understands what they're supposed to do and how they work with one another. Too often we assume that they do. Everybody assumes but it's not. It's not really true it because nobody's everybody's options are slightly different. And so what we will do is for each member of your team to say one of the five things that you do, and they'll say I five I do 105 Okay, Put them into five categories. What are the five categories?
Unknown Speaker 24:05
And you do that for each, excuse me, each member on the team.
Unknown Speaker 24:11
And as you do that, you'll say, you know, how would we measure the five for Josh? You know, here's the five that you have. And how would we measure number one, you tell me how we should measure it, Josh, it's your job. And then number two, how would you measure and the team will all come together and support one another. And when when I start to understand what you're supposed to do, and you started understand what I supposed to do, and we, we kind of morph these things as we work together, we start building teamwork as a basketball team do. We might even have plays, you know, one play could be when we go to a customer, there are three things that we do either sell something, build a relationship where we fix the problem, okay, that those are the three place Those are the plays, what are the members is going to do on that on that play just as you would do in football? You know, what's your blocking assignment on this play? What's your blocking sign on this? Everybody should know, here are the three plays. And here's how we do that. The clearer you become and how your team will operate, the better you will perform, and the happier
Unknown Speaker 25:21
Yeah, that's well, I like that.
Josh Tapp 25:25
I'm just taking some good notes here. Well, Brad, thank you for coming on and sharing so much wisdom with us today. So can you give us one last parting piece of guidance before we go and then kind of share with us how we can connect with you?
Unknown Speaker 25:38
I don't know if I have any guidance before we go but um,
Unknown Speaker 25:43
you can you can connect with me and Brad. Brad at Bradley Hall calm or my LinkedIn you know Brad Bradley w Hall I think like that, and then feel free. I'm I'm always happy to. I feel like you No, I, I feel very blessed to have the kind of experiences that I've had. And so I feel like my, my brain is a library and anybody could check out anything they want. So if I can help in any way, I'm happy to do it. It's not money or anything. It's just, it's my responsibility to give back. So I'm happy to support you, the people on the podcast if I can.
Josh Tapp 26:29
I love that all. I'll put links to all that in the description of the podcast so people can can connect with you and Brad, thanks for coming on the show. Thank you. Have you ever wondered which tools top entrepreneurs in your industry are using? Well, I've interviewed over 100 entrepreneurs and from those interviews, I was able to see which tools that pretty much all entrepreneurs are using. And we were able to create a resources page for you with all of these tools available too. So if you'd like to see the top tools and top trainings that we're going to be offering here at the lucky Titan, you can go to the lucky Titan comm slash resources to see this entire treasure trove of tools and trainings and everything else you're going to need. So with that, go over to the lucky titan.com slash resources.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai