Josh Tapp 0:01
What's up everybody? Josh Tapp here again and welcome back to the lucky Titan podcast. So today we have a very special episode for you because I had the unique opportunity to sit down with the number one podcaster in the entrepreneurship space. His name is john Lee Dumas. If you haven't heard of john or entrepreneurs on fire, you are missing out if you haven't yet heard his episodes, hop on over to eo fire.com to check him out. So john is the guy that got me started in podcasting being one of the top people in the podcasting space. And he's here today to share with us why we need to start a podcast how we can use it to monetize our business and how we can use it to brand ourselves as a business. So john, let's hop right in. Awesome, john. Well, I'm really glad to have you on today. Honestly, I've been following your stuff for a year so it's really awesome to finally meet you in person. Thanks for having me on, man, man. I'm excited. Yeah, absolutely. Well, you are a tight and that's one of the reasons we invited you on. I mean, you're really well known in the industry. We've already talked about that in the intro, but you Been in this in podcasting for over what six years now? Seven yeah seven years so what would you tell people who have they're trying to start a podcast but they're worried that their their niche is saturated?
So your if you think your niche is saturated very well maybe because it's not niche enough I mean, there's unbelievable amounts of space and abundance for everybody in this world and in this podcasting medium, if you niche down till it hurts, so you really need to say, you know what, I'm not just going to have a podcast interviews entrepreneurs, like I love yoga and I'm a vegan so I'm going to have a podcast for Yogi's who are also vegans, like that's a niche like that's a micro niche. And guess what, right away, you're going to come into the space to maybe be the only person in town, the only person in the game or one of the few so you can quickly rise to the top because in my mind, you want to be dominating or being the best coming in the top of the top in the niche that you're in, otherwise just kind of being somewhere floating out in the middle. Middle in this big, broad, vague, saturated area that a lot of people just dive into.
Josh Tapp 2:05
Yeah. Well, and so if they, let's say they haven't even started a podcast at this point, and they're saying, Well, you know, is now the time to start a podcast or should I be looking to other other mediums?
podcasting is an amazing medium. I mean, I love podcasting because it makes you better so many things speaking, presenting, listening, just conducting conversations, you know, expanding upon topics like there's so many skills of podcasting is give you that are translatable to other areas. So, in my mind, podcasting is just a great form of creating content. So you should be thinking of, hey, if I'm going to be creating content, this world for Instagram, for Facebook, for YouTube, for my blog, whatever it might be, podcasting is a great way to also be sharing that mission, that message with the world. I decided to make it my focus. I don't think it needs to be everybody's focus, it can be but if your focus is, you know, Instagram on certain health and supplement things like that can remain your focus but Then a podcast can be a great way to hit another segment of the market that's not following you or never find your stuff on Instagram, but then get them to know like and trust you, and then you can push them to the things you really want to push them to. So it needs to be the focal point, or just an additional thing that you're doing to open yourself up to a new audience, a bigger audience, and a really impactful way. Yeah,
Josh Tapp 3:21
I love that. Well, so what's something unique that you did to grow your audience? I mean, you've you've already been able to grow it to millions of downloads per per episode. So how would you know what's something unique that you did?
Well, back in 2012, was really easy to do something unique because not many people were podcasting. Like now when people had heard of a podcast, there weren't many podcasts out there. But I still did do something unique. And what I did was I launched the first and only daily podcast interviewing the world's most successful entrepreneurs, and for five and a half years for 2000 episodes. For 2000 days in a row, I released an episode with an interview with an author for newer, I put in the work I put in the reps. I just made it happen. At five and a half years I decided you know what, now that I've got this big 2000 episode milestone, I'm going to step back, excuse me and go go to a more a longer form podcast that I now call audio masterclasses and I'm going to do them three days a week and that's currently where I'm at right now. Sometimes I flex up to four. But you know, I had that kind of flexibility now where I'm doing three, sometimes four, five, a little crazy sometimes maybe I'll even throw in another bonus episode, five days a week. But for 2000 days, I really did very unique thing and I just had that daily interview. I mean, it was, you know, there are people out there that have like a daily quote or a quick five minute daily, whatever that might be. But as far as like a long form interview, seven days a week, I was the only game in town and you know, I benefited from that and a lot of ways getting better. As a podcast host as I was putting in the reps, I was doing 365 interviews a year instead of like 50 which most people are doing a weekly we're doing let's just a big difference. I was meeting more people networking. It was different. It was unique in 2019, that wouldn't be different or unique. So I would, you know, go and explore different areas, you know, now, I've established myself and the podcast has a great following and a great audience, which I call Fire Nation, and we do great things. But you know, if I was starting from scratch, I'd be going after that niche of a niche that we talked about at the top of the show.
Josh Tapp 5:23
Yeah, well, I really love the direction you've been taking it and being able to change into, you know, longer form type episodes. So what what's kind of the, the pain I guess, when you're when you're transitioning to that? Because there's a lot of fear around a lot of people saying, well, I've been consistent, should I change? Should I become more consistent, less consistent?
And what would you recommend to people? I mean, to me, you've got to create the show you want to create, that's the beauty of the world that we live in. I mean, we have this opportunity not to have all of the gatekeepers that are out there. We have the opportunity not to have like three old white dudes in Hollywood deciding what every movie is going to be and who's going to star and act Like we are our own gatekeepers, we can create a show about what we want. So for me, it's all just about number one, creating the show that I want to create that I feel like is going to bring a lot of value. And then always hitting and engaging with my audience and asking them, How'd you find out about me so I can learn where they're actually finding out about me my biggest lead generators, what do you like about the show? What don't you like about the show? And what's your current biggest struggle right now? Like when I ask those four questions, I stay in tune my audience. So I knew that making the shift from a daily show of like 17 to 20 minutes to a three days per week interview show I like longer form 30 to 40, sometimes 60 minute episodes. That was something that my audience was absolutely excited about. In that audio masterclass format, we're going to really go deep on one topic with the expert in that specific vertical in that specific niche. So that was exactly why I knew it was confident to make that change, because there was a change I wanted to make, that I engage my audience. I had real open, honest conversations. Then I made the switch.
Josh Tapp 7:02
Yeah. Which is so awesome because you were able to do that without really affecting your viewership or losing any of your audience. That's true. It's a big deal. Well, so I think a lot of the question or the question that's on a lot of people's mind is, you know, how are you able to get in with top entrepreneurs when you didn't have any reputation to start off with? Or did you have reputation to start off with
zero reputation to start off with and it was all about strategic timing, like I really was putting in the work. And so I was going to conferences, I was meeting people, I was buying their books, I was following them on social media. I was commenting, I was being a person of value. And then I was being strategic timing wise. I waited till Tim Ferriss came out with a book, The Four Hour Chef and I knew that he was going to be going in promotion mode. And I said, Tim, I have an audience of entrepreneurs, not massive yet, but just take 25 minutes in your bathrobe You don't even have to get dressed because it's audio only. And let's have a conversation about your book to my audience. And I know that some of them are gonna resonate with you and your message in your book and they're gonna want to make that purchase and then I did the exact same thing with Gary Vaynerchuk With his book that came out, Jab, Jab, Jab, Right Hook, like I was very strategic and the timing of things about when I approached and then once you kind of get, like the Tim's and the Gary's and the Seth Godin and the Barbara Corcoran 's of the world, then it just becomes a point of like, Okay, if those people have been on the show, then why wouldn't I be on the show? Because most of them are obviously after level, because they're kind of like the the a level entrepreneurs for like the online marketing world. And so that's where it just kind of became easy. were like, Wow, well, if they've been on entrepreneurs on fire, why wouldn't I and then it got to a point where I was actually, you know, at the tipping point where I was having to reach out to guests anymore, they were just finding me at a higher quantity than I even had open spots. And when you and I are talking right now, today, the end of 2019. I mean, I'm getting over 400 requests to be on my show every single month for a show that only has eight interview spots per month. So think about those numbers. And the reality is the biggest piece of feedback I got back when I was you know, having this idea to sort of do the show was JOHN, you're never going to find enough gas, like you're not going to, you know, be able to, you know, find you know enough people in a timely manner to be on your show, you're going to get burned out, your listeners get burned out, all of which proved to be wrong. So you know, to me, if you have an idea if you have something that you really want to bring to this world, obviously you want to find people who have been there done that those your mentors to like, learn from them. And I did that. But at the same time, like if you have this thing that you really believe needs to be out in the world, don't let the naysayers take you down, because usually they don't even know what they're talking about. Well, that's what's the beauty honestly, a podcast is you get a lot of those passionate people who it's about the passion, yeah, there's money involved in it, but it's more about how can I How can I get my message out to the world? So then, in that, you know, in that respect for you, you know, what's what's been working for you now in scaling your audience? I mean, you've already got such a massive following, but what have you been doing, you know, today to be able to grow that audience continuing to produce valuable content. Let's solve an actual pain point on a daily basis. So I'm doing the podcast that's three, sometimes four days per week, I'm doing daily, one minute videos for Instagram, for YouTube, for LinkedIn, for Facebook. That's the same one minute video that I'm just repurposing across all those channels. But I'm constantly putting myself in front of my ideal audience on a consistent basis with real value with you know, free value and with consistent value. So those are the things that I'm continuously doing putting myself in front of the right people at the right time. And you know, just growing my listenership one listener at a time, which is how I went from no listens back when I launched to, you know, over a million listens a month as we're talking here today.
Josh Tapp 10:43
Yeah, that's so awesome. Well, I know we're about out of time, but I do have one last question for you along those lines. So if you were to recommend to our listeners, one tactic that they could use today, to grow their audience, what would it be?
It would be the fact that you already have it Audiences out there, they're listening to something that you're producing. They're reading something that you're writing, they're doing x. They're doing, why they're doing z. Now you need to jump on a conversation with 510 20 of them and ask those four questions. Ask them, how did you hear about me? Like, how did you hear about my content? And how did you find me? What do you like about my content? What don't you like about my content? And then what is the biggest struggle you're facing right now? Like, if you ask those four things, the information that you're going to get is going to reveal the next step for you. Like I love that Martin Luther King quotes. You don't have to see the whole staircase to take the next step. And so many people are paralyzed because they're like, I don't see the whole staircase. Well, you can't and you shouldn't get to take that next step before that. Third, the next step is revealed. And that happens by having conversations with people who are your audience, or, again, if you're forever reason, like don't have any audience right now, then people who you know would be your ideal audience if you had that audience have those conversations because there'll be the exact same
Josh Tapp 11:59
awesome why I love that, john. Well, thanks so much for coming on the show and how can our listeners connect with you?
All the magic for us happens at Evo fire.com. We got some free courses over there. We're talking free courses on how to podcast, how to create funnels, how to launch your own mastermind, all free all shorts but very impactful for you. And of course my podcast is entrepreneurs on fire. So check that out in any podcast directory. It was fun chatting today, Rob.
Josh Tapp 12:27
Yeah, it's good to meet you take care. Take care. The number one needle mover in my business is joint venture partnerships. Growing a following can be time consuming and frustrating. For that reason we created the tribe of Titans the world's first joint venture matching platform. Using this free platform you can find guests for a podcast YouTube channel or Facebook group where you can promote your brand product or service in one simple place. You can create your free account at tribe dot the lucky titan.com once again that's tribe dot lucky titan.com
Transcribed by https://otter.ai