Josh Tapp 0:00
What's up everybody? Josh Tapp here again and welcome back to the lucky Titan podcast. So today we have Kylie Chen on the mic and Kylie is the founder and CEO of organelle expeditions. Kylie started off her college career as an NCAA athletes then went on to Cambridge University to teach English all across the world. During her travels, Kylie found a love for culture, and then decided to start her business with aka nella expeditions. Having done that she has now landed herself on the Utah's 40 under 40 and is here today to share with us how to stand out in a crowded industry. So Kylie let's hop right in. Alright Kylie, so tell us one thing about yourself that most people don't know.
Kylie Chenn 0:41
So the one thing that most people don't know is actually when I travel, I always have a jar of peanut butter in my suitcase. Reason being is because I love the experiences that I'm having around the world. I do love the food as well obviously, but sometimes I go go, go, go go. Peanut butter is a great thing to have. It's like I call it the inner. I'm the Energizer Bunny with that peanut
thing that people don't know a lot of my travelers bring peanut butter with them now they think it's funny. So it's hilarious.
Josh Tapp 1:07
Trick label for our trips.
Kylie Chenn 1:09
Yeah, I should be sponsored by by Jiffy or something. I don't know.
Josh Tapp 1:13
Yeah. So you should reach out to him. Right? Come on guys. That's funny you maybe think of I don't know if you ever watched the show last back in the day, they always talk about how what they missed was peanut butter. So I thought that was funny.
Kylie Chenn 1:24
Yeah, it's it's instant energy. It's great all around the world to find another country. So So bring it with you.
Josh Tapp 1:30
Yeah. Having lived in Mexico. Yeah, they don't even have peanut butter. Their countries actually don't. So it's hilarious. It's an American thing, but Okay, well, cool. Well, so now, was that
Kylie Chenn 1:40
a little bit of home wherever you go, right.
Josh Tapp 1:43
So give us a little background about yourself how you got into the business you're at and then we'll kind of go from there.
Kylie Chenn 1:48
Yeah, definitely. So I actually originally grew up in a small town in northern Idaho left my childhood. I was always very curious about the world and I think that's because for the few times that I did have the opportunity to meet people from other places. I just loved asking them questions. So anyways, fast forward, I studied up at BYU, I actually went to BYU to play basketball and love my time there. I played two seasons and I was actually studying medicine at that time. And but had the chance to step foot in a actually a Women's Entrepreneurship lecture series that really shifted my focus and kind of thoughts about what was possible. So I started to take more business classes at that same time, an opportunity to study it, at Oxford came up. So I transferred from BYU just for a semester or two semesters to study at Oxford. And that was really eye opening for me because I met people from all around the world. I had best friends from like 50 different countries. And over the course of the next two years while I was finishing my studies, it opened the door to a lot of opportunities to travel, and stay with my friends to travel and really understand the local culture community. People places. And so I was doing that with the, you know, the few dollars that I had for my part time job while finishing my business degree at BYU. And those two things really paired together. And were what I initially launched my love for travel and kind of thought that I could do something in the travel industry. And I also I love learning. So I, that's one of the main reasons why I love to travel is from what I learned as well as while I was at BYU, I was taking so many different classes, photography, music, songwriting, song recordings, so many different things. And I really attribute a lot of that to just putting me in a position to really understand a lot of different things and and have to kind of decide what I wanted to do with those. And if there was a possibility to do anything with those for a future career, kind of always knew that I wanted to work for myself If possible, and so that was those are kind of all pieces that led me to launch a canola while I was still in school. And I founded a canola in 2013. It was the end of my sophomore year at BYU. And it wasn't until 2015 that we launched our first trip. There's a lot of stories in between those those years. But there's lots of learnings and lots of challenges and a lot of, you know, just moving forward. So, yeah, I guess fast forward to now, when I first started a canola we were selling spices. A lot of people don't know that we were founded as a canola spice company. The whole idea behind that was I had had these incredible travel experiences all around the world in about 30 countries while I was still a student, and wanted to share those with people, with my family first and with my friends, and it kind of just spiraled from there. People were very interested in the stories I learned very quickly that the spice blends at least the way I was making them was not sustainable and not shippable and so things. So, coming out of school, actually, it was just someone, a family member that sat me down and said, Hey, Kylie, you've ever thought about actually doing trips. You're really good at it. A lot of people are interested in having these experiences, and she'll want more revenue in that the better business idea, essentially. That's a great idea. So we lost our first trip in December of 2015. was profitable, but the profits into the next trip, and we haven't looked back since then, for years coming up this December.
Josh Tapp 5:28
So it's just yeah, you made it that far. So you're doing great.
Unknown Speaker 5:33
Yeah, that's what that's Yeah, that's good.
Josh Tapp 5:36
Keep it keeping it alive is half the problem in the beginning, right? Mm hmm. Well, so what I really like about the direction of your company, right, so you've decided that, hey, I've got the cultural, you know, exposure. I know how to travel and be safe. And I mean, a girl from Idaho, right? It's a pretty, pretty big deal to be able to travel the world and still be safe. Mm hmm. So what are some of the, you know, the reasons why you decided to start doing those trips out side of the revenue, right? Cuz I mean, obviously, it's a higher ticket item. But what was kind of the appeal to it?
Kylie Chenn 6:07
You know, it's what I saw myself doing really for the rest of my life is when I first started, actually my initial thoughts. I wouldn't say I wanted to be an entrepreneur, I don't know if I really knew what that meant was, if I could travel, you know, if I could just find a way to travel for free, even if I had this as a side hobby. How cool would that be? Because this is really, this is what I this is what I would spend money on this is, this is how I learned this is you know what I love to do. And so that was kind of my initial, I think initially sparked my interest before I even thought through how this is a big market. There's a lot of opportunities here and it's growing before I even I would say took any of those like tangible business opportunities. That's what I was thinking. And so I just knew a lot of people at this point because I was young and because I was female, we're watching. Um, I've been to 120 countries now. At that point, I'd probably Ventoux between 30 and 50 I know that's a big range, I don't know. But a lot of people in a lot of these countries were like India, and Kashmir, which borders Pakistan, like place me more places that a lot of people don't think about going or they have fears or hesitancies because of language. So people seeing me do that, especially women of all ages and men were like, this is this is interesting. I would love to go and I want to go in a way that feels safe. And I want to feel in a go in a way that feels like I'm really connected with local people, which is how we travel expedition style travel. So I think when I saw that there was a little bit of a market, I saw a glimpse of the market. I thought why not go after it something? Yeah.
Josh Tapp 7:44
That's so awesome. Well, so walk us through kind of your model, how you how you got it to work. So I mean, you you invite people to come on trips with you. And then how does it work from there? I mean,
Kylie Chenn 7:53
yeah, so I kind of weave different phases. When I first started that first year, I was pretty much going on all The trips, because that's what I knew, right? I thought, okay, I'll put this trip together to a place that I want to go when I know other people want to go. And then we'll get enough people to go on and make it profitable. And that's what I did. So I A lot of my initial building was, you could say network based marketing, network based sales. That's a skill set. I would say that I learned very early on, from my time probably working at Qualtrics as a student on their sales team, is how to sell right and how to do it in a personal way. And it's when it's something you're so passionate about. I think that got me really far. It got me really far because I was selling not just to sell, I was selling because I was actually going I was I was actually, you know, sold on the experience too. I was going on, but fast forward, you know, that can only get you so far. You can only do so many trips. And so I realized I need to build a community. And you know, there was a big buzz going on about social media. There's this you know, all these things. And I thought, you know, we tried that for a while and we dug level deeper and I realized the importance of an email list. And so very early on, we started growing our email list. We actually got into giveaways, trip giveaways. So even to this day, we're actually one of the largest trip giveaways pop up. Travel providers. We've worked with Volkswagen Conde Nast travel. These are so many different companies. It's a great way to grow your email list. And for us, it was super beneficial because what we were giving away was our product, our trips, so we knew everybody entering were people that actually wanted what we had. We didn't know about their ability to pay. That was one thing we still don't know. And we have to really vet down but yeah, so we we early on and giveaways and the way that we did that we actually never paid. We never spent money on giveaways. We did it very strategically. We brought on partners where we realized you know, 50,000 new emails or 25,000 new emails is, you know, in highly targeted emails, in a sense are very valuable. So brands are more than happy to pay. Absolutely. To crowdfund, So, essentially, we crowdfunded trips in order to get emails and our list is, you know, over a million right now, and it's definitely the number one driver of our travel community revenue, our bookings. And now we pair that with a lot of other things. So early on, I attribute a lot of success to partnerships. And most of that, I would say, in the giveaway arena, I do a lot of I talk a lot about giveaways, and I do a lot of different trainings on that because it is a very controversial area. And there are ways to do it. Right. And there are definitely ways to do it wrong. So hundred percent. Yeah. So that's, that was one of the kickstart.
Josh Tapp 10:37
I love that actually, I'm going to delve into your process there a little bit because, I mean, we, our company is based around helping people build those partnerships. And so I really liked that you mentioned that even though you didn't even know that about us. When you when you're building your list. I'm really curious about the method that you did that because you said you took on partners, you gave away a free vacation. Did you basically just say hey, I'm Everybody send an email out to your list. You're kind of a sponsor, and then you kind of everybody gets emails. Is that how you worked it?
Kylie Chenn 11:05
Yeah. So we have a platform. It's very, very clean, very email focused. A lot of giveaways. Now we're on social media and other things. So we have a nice landing page. And it's Yeah, we have typically four to six partners. And by entering the giveaway, you clearly opt in to all those partners. It's also very important the partners you pick, right, we were giving away a culinary trip to to Italy, we're going to choose like William and Sonoma. We're going to choose companies where we know the audience fits so that everyone benefits and it doesn't feel spammy. Yeah. And then everyone sends out an email they can promote on social as well, however, to drive a minimum number of entries to the campaign, and within the window, and typically, these are large giveaways. So they're running about a month. So they're open for a month and we can bring 10s of thousands, sometimes hundreds of thousands of entries. So it really just depends on how well we strategize. The campaign.
Josh Tapp 12:00
Yeah, I love that. Honestly, that's one of the best ways in my opinion to build a list. I think you, you nailed it out of the park. So when when you've done that, you've said you get quite a few emails off of it. What do you do once you get the emails?
Kylie Chenn 12:14
Yeah, so this is something that we didn't know what to do when I first started
Josh Tapp 12:17
great we have the list no one
Kylie Chenn 12:19
has a list and night we let I look back, I'm like, wow, we let email sit for months. Like we just no wonder that. You know, we got a few it was a little rocky start. Definitely. And this is why I've learned a lot through giveaways and and growing a list in general, and there definitely are ways to do it better. But now we really refine that process. We're constantly refining it. But pairing giveaways with strategic drip campaigns is huge. So we have a series of welcome drip campaigns when people come in depending on what giveaway they're coming from, depending on what we know about their demographic based on the partners, we essentially welcome them into our list. We try not to you know, seller push too hard off the bat. It's That's important to welcome and not lead to an unsubscribe. And then from there, our whole goal is to get more information on them. Where do they want to go for us is or how do they want to travel is important destinations, whether whether it's regional, do they like culinary travel? Do they like tracking? Once we get a few of those more qualitative data points, then we can put them into, you know, other other drip campaigns. We have actually, we've never done advertising up to this point. A lot of people are like, how did you do that? And but we're starting, you know, to introduce social retargeting. There's a lot of different ways that you can keep yourself Top of Mind in travel. It's unique, because it's not a necessity, right? It's definitely a luxury to be able to travel. And so for us, it's a it's about being Top of Mind and knowing when people are most likely to make that travel decision and how frequently they make it and being there during those times.
Josh Tapp 13:53
Which is awesome. Yeah, well, so how many trips are you doing on a yearly basis right now?
Kylie Chenn 13:58
Um, any given week Sometimes we can do up to 20 to 25 trips, but we last year took out 2500 travelers, 2500 travelers, and we're on kind of queue right now to double that this year. So a little under 5000. But our trips right now, so most of our trips are running as small group departures anywhere between two and 16 people. We're on the lower to mid end of that, which is actually a really great group size four to eight is average, which gives us also a lot of opportunity to scale right, once we jump into that little bit higher average. A lot of numbers will go up for us, but yeah, so I'm trying to think probably a little under. This is like a wide range. Probably one 800 800 or so trips.
Josh Tapp 14:46
Yeah. Wow. That is awesome.
Kylie Chenn 14:48
Last year, about 500 this year, not quite 1000. Yeah. Working on the number side, when you grow it's sometimes hard to stay on top of every single every single number. So sorry, I don't have that in front of No, that's
Josh Tapp 14:59
okay. And then Do you send somebody with them as like kind of how your trips work?
Kylie Chenn 15:03
So it actually depends. We have a small group site and a large group site. Mostly if you visit our website, you'll see a lot of our small group expedition. So those are actually completely run with our in country team. So yes, we do have a representative from our team, but they are native from that country. Usually, you know, they maybe they've been to school, you know, in in a, they've been they've been to school in English speaking school, or they have some connection to Western travelers, they've done it for a while. So it's, it's great because you still get that local experience, but you also have that kind of, you know, safety blanket or you know, reassurance that someone is with you, who understands you and knows us. So that's how we run all of our small group trips on the large group side. Yes, we do send someone in addition to that in country representative and all the guides that we have, that is usually the point contact with with that group throughout the trip, whether it's university or corporate, we do a lot of those types. So, yeah,
Josh Tapp 15:56
right. Well, that gives you a huge competitive advantage because they're getting that That cultural taste as well, instead of just saying, we're gonna go out there, and I'm this person from Idaho is gonna tell you what to do.
Kylie Chenn 16:06
Exactly. Because I don't know. I mean, I've traveled to these places and so of other people, but we're not if you're not local, I don't feel like you should be the one to show show off the country, it should be done from a from a local perspective, at least, at least having that you can have, you know, someone else go as well. But yeah, we're all about keeping keeping the dollars local, and keeping the knowledge local.
Josh Tapp 16:27
That is really awesome. I love that. That's really cool. I have a ton of questions about that. But I'm not gonna delve hugely into that is really, really curious about the way you've been. You've been doing it but yeah, that's, that's super cool. So once you've you've got these trips and everything in place. Now you're scaling. Right. So you're at this point where we were talking about before? I mean, you're really building out a team. Yeah, it's what's what's kind of the difficulty there, I guess, and growing that team.
Kylie Chenn 16:53
Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, you totally shift hats from I would say being 100% an entrepreneur to, you know, maybe putting on that executor. You'd have hat or that manager hat. And now you're focused on, you know, you have your product, you have the momentum behind your different pipelines. And now it's a matter of how do you really you know, build momentum behind a team to to get you there to scale. And so for me, it's it's definitely been a challenge because I am definitely, uh, I think I just took the Strength Finders test and I'm like, lone wolf, that's my profile. Oh, it's been a really great opportunity for me to really focus on communication and, you know, empowering other people to be successful and spending my time doing that. And honestly, the past two years and doing that, it's the reason why we've been able to maintain our growth trajectory, you can't do it alone. And so, lots of challenges, you know, there's things like turnover, you know, obviously, you invest a lot of dollars and resources into you know, projects that maybe don't get off the ground. So it definitely it takes a takes grit, I would say to move forward, especially if you are a When I say organically funded company, right, you haven't taken on funding. So you feel you feel every dollar that goes in and out and you feel every every moment. And it's, um, it's the highs are high and the lows are low. I'll put it that way. Absolutely.
Josh Tapp 18:14
That is so true. And so how many people do you have on your team right now to be able to manage, I mean, you have a huge amount of volume coming through your company.
Kylie Chenn 18:23
So Hooray, now we have about 12 equivalent full time, so I have more more people than that. But when I first started at building our team, which was only two years ago, before that, it was myself and, you know, maybe a few people here or there that would help be part time with things. We've what I knew was okay, we could we can bring on part time, you know, team members and grow them from there. And so we're in this transition right now from moving people from part time to full time and really focusing on on that. So yeah, the equivalent 1212 full time, probably more, it depends on the season 15 to 20. And that's just in the Right. And then we have all of our in country team members that pretty much make up our ops team. And our ops team in the United States is just really about keeping those relationships, quality control and things strong in 100 countries that we work, which is a lot. And so that team is growing quite rapidly.
Josh Tapp 19:17
on it. Yeah. You'll have to keep that growing right for you pushing troops. Kind of well, I can't believe you're managing that much for 12 people.
Kylie Chenn 19:25
Yeah, it's it's it's definitely a lot. I think as a lot of times, right now, we have one trip in each country. And so it is. It's it's definitely it's manageable. But as we start to scale and have multiple trips, multiple varieties, many more touch points in these countries. That's why we're growing our team pretty quickly right now. Because we're, we're, we're seeing what's coming. So yeah,
Josh Tapp 19:45
we're in a pretty crazy niche. So let's talk a little bit about the niche. That's why we brought you out in the first place. I mean, you're, you're in a very sexy niche, right, the the travel industry is a very sexy niche, but it's also a very intimidate. missed a lot of people because it seems crowded. So I'm able to mat like, manage that and everything.
Kylie Chenn 20:06
I think honestly, the biggest thing I had going for me is I had no idea about any of this when I started, like, Oh, you know, this is it's a very fragmented industry, there's a lot of players. You know, it's it's definitely growing, there's a lot of market space, but it's also, it's a lifestyle business. And a lot of people like to be in lifestyle businesses, because it's something you enjoy doing every day. But it also typically means I don't wanna say it's harder. They're just different challenges. So yeah, I was just naive going into it. And I think I've recognized a lot more of the challenges as I've grown. But I've also recognized a lot more of the opportunities. There is a lot of market space and travel and there's a lot of opportunity to do a lot of good around the world. And so that's something that I think has really kept, kept me and my team going and I think us really sticking strong to that niche that we are in which is smaller. Adventure travel, you know, focused on building sustainable businesses of locals around the world via our model, a very, you know, on the on the ground local travel, whether it's budget all the way up to high end luxury, you can do it all keeping, keeping the dollars local. So I think, for us really sticking true to that niche. That's why people come back to travel with us. That's why people find us in the first place. There are a couple of key points that set us apart. And I think in any industry, in particular, in travel, that is really saturated you you can't try to do everything for everyone.
Josh Tapp 21:35
So I completely agree. So you're able to take that. I mean, the narrowing down of your niche is how you're able to really differentiate yourself.
Kylie Chenn 21:45
Josh Tapp 21:47
So what would you recommend to somebody who's trying to enter into the travel niche, you know, what do they what should they expect and what should they stay away from I think is more important, right?
Kylie Chenn 21:58
Definitely, I would say I mean, our goal now and this has been a balanced for me, right is to let's let's let's try to be, you know, in as many countries helping as many communities, you know, growing our team as, as like wide as we can. But really, I think what was key what we try to stick to and what was key when I first started was really focusing in on those few destinations and travel styles that we were really good at. So we came from a spice business, right? The way we actually got into travel is this first few trips were very culinary focused. They weren't culinary culture focused trips to destinations that were off the beaten track, most people wouldn't travel to themselves. And so there was kind of a theme going. And as we grew, even right now, I can tell you we have about 10 destinations that that honestly probably 75% of our trips go to because we become really good and those destinations and we become known for those destinations. And so, I would say you need to Don't try to do at all really choose a couple like one thing Start with one thing, one destination, or one travel style that you can really do well get known for that build an audience, and then you can start to kind of offer other things and grow in lateral ways. That's been. Yeah, that's been our focus from the beginning.
Josh Tapp 23:16
Well, it's pretty easy to scale after that, because you have a proven model. You exactly we can open up the next country because we know how to do it.
Kylie Chenn 23:23
Yeah, it's just like an introducing a new product line, but it almost Yeah, it's very, you have the same model. So you can just replicate it. It's all about the people really in travel is finding the right the right people to be able to build your team around.
Josh Tapp 23:39
So and your your customer, I guess, for you guys is kind of more of a solo traveler. You're not really looking for a group traveler, per se.
Kylie Chenn 23:46
Yeah, so we started out actually really in that solo travel model. I would say a lot of our travelers do come in twos but it's typically one person that's driving the decision. So I always say that that like 45 to 65 year old female as I like to target audience because she's making the decision dragging her husband along. And you know, we get two for one. We joke about that, but yeah, so it really is so low or, you know, small groups of people that either want to travel to destination on their, like in their own group, but with local guides and having all of that structure built in, and or join another group that's not big, you know, under 16 people where it still feels intimate, but they can meet other people who like to travel, similar to them. Because we do have a little bit more of an adventure style, we get adventurous, people who are curious about the world traveling with us, which is really exciting.
Josh Tapp 24:38
So you're giving them that full cultural experience. So yeah, a little bit an idea of how your trips works. I'm gonna let you pitch this on here straight out. I might be coming on one of your trips. So
Kylie Chenn 24:49
how about your top destinations here soon? Um, yeah, so our trips, obviously they have their very different flavor depending on what what destination you're going to have different travels. styles, but like at the, at their core, we really focus on bringing all the highlights and all the almost unknown gems together in these experiences. So think about you know, you're staying in boutique hotels that encompass the local architecture, culture food, they're locally, you know, owned and operated. So you're really getting to meet the people. And that's across a spectrum of, you know, one to five star, there's, there's just so much opportunity there. And, you know, throughout the day, you're you're going with your local guide and also meeting a bunch of other local what we call artisans throughout your day, taking you through the markets, they might be, you know, taking you in a food tasting experience through the through the alleys of, you know, the Medina, fez and Morocco or you might be going on, you know, a guided nature walk through the Amazon, but with essentially an expert, right locals are experts in these different things because they live there for so long. And so the whole day and the whole week, most of our trips are a week, week long. You're really getting deep into the culture, the nature, the cuisine, it's a big piece of ours as well. So that you come back, almost, you know, you you just know so much about this country, you know, you don't need to read a textbook, you don't need to do any of those other things you're learning directly from the people. And a lot of our experiences are hands on as well. So you're not just going from museum to museum or you know, in a tour, big tour bus, you really are, you know, walking through the jungle and walking through the markets and trying all the different you know, cheeses and breads and sometimes more interesting foods if you're adventurous. So I'm really finding you're doing it with people who are also usually have very interesting backgrounds. You know, they've traveled to other places, and it's just a really cool, cool experience.
Josh Tapp 26:45
Yeah, and you're really putting the right type of people together. So they're the experiences enhanced even by just the people they're going with.
Kylie Chenn 26:51
Yeah, yep. So they asked by the locals as well as the travelers in your group, because if you're traveling in small group, you definitely want to make sure that you're going with like minded people who are also going to help you learn and stretch. So, yeah, and you just show up and everything is taken care of for you, which is really great. But it is it's an expedition right? You're moving from place to place you're learning, you're growing you're, you're essentially developing yourself as a person and your perspective of the world. So when you come back, you really these trips really change you. Like we get that a lot from people and I think travel has the opportunity to do that.
Josh Tapp 27:24
Absolutely. Especially if you've never been outside of the country and being able to see some amazing cultures. That's, that's really fun. That's one of my top favorite hobbies to see, you know,
Unknown Speaker 27:32
really awesome. Good hobby.
Josh Tapp 27:35
Yes, I see. You obviously know that.
Kylie Chenn 27:38
You can, yeah, you can take it to the extreme for sure, like me.
Josh Tapp 27:42
But you're at least able to make a successful business off of it. So yeah, let's, uh, I'm sure our audience at this point is saying, Okay, well, how do I even learn about your trips and everything? So where can people connect with you?
Kylie Chenn 27:53
Yeah, so first, you can you can check out our website. It's www dot Ella spelled AC, a en la calm the name is a little bit hard didn't know that when I started it but it's cinnamon, Camilla is Latin for cinnamon. So that food, um, and yeah, go there, check it out. You can also contact me and my team, our email actually routes directly to me as well as expeditions with an S e x PE d i t i o n s at a Canella calm hopefully I spelled that right.
Josh Tapp 28:32
I'll put it in the mail put in there.
Kylie Chenn 28:35
We'd love to hear from you guys. Um, you know whether you want to travel to destinations, or you have just ideas on new trips, we should launch we love talking with with that anyone that you know, really, really loves or wants to be involved in the travel industry. So
Josh Tapp 28:51
that's awesome. Well, thank you so much for coming on the show and sharing so much with us and for you. Before we leave though, could you give us one last parting piece of guidance for the entrepreneurs here.
Kylie Chenn 29:00
Oh, yes, honestly, depends on what stage you're in. But this I live by this every day fail hard or fail fast. I know it's cliche. And a lot of people say it, but don't be afraid. And don't be afraid to fail. Just, you know, you learn, you learn through failure, I actually look for opportunities to fail every day. And I tell my team, this, you know, if you don't fail today, then you you know, you need to challenge yourself a little bit more. So I would say just go after whatever is on your mind right now. Go after and go after it quickly so that you can learn to pivot and not waste time or resources. You know, if it's not maybe the best position, like me with my spices, who knows you might be trips all around the world A few years later, so
Josh Tapp 29:38
fail hard and fail fast. I love that. Yeah. Well, Kylie, thank you so much for coming on and sharing all of your knowledge with us today.
Kylie Chenn 29:46
Yeah, thanks for having me.
Josh Tapp 29:48
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